Tuesday, November 20, 2007

Over-Estimating Influence

The Kansas City Metropolitan Bar Association has spoken. Will Musharaff listen?

According to esteemed KC Star legal scribe and King of Deadpan Delivery Dan Margolies,
Kansas City Metropolitan Bar Association President Charley German has endorsed the American Bar Association’s protest of the suspension of the Constitution and the imposition of emergency rule in Pakistan.

In a letter to ABA President William H. Neukom, German wrote that the KCMBA condemned the attack on the rule of law in that country by President Gen. Pervez Musharraf.

“It is an intolerable series of events — suspension of the Constitution, disbanding the courts, detaining the judges, and arresting lawyers who are protesting these illegal actions,” German wrote. “We join in your call on President Musharraf to restore judicial independence in Pakistan, to heed the rulings of the courts, and to free lawyers and judges who have been illegally detained.”
Thank you, KCMBA, for issuing this brave letter and taking on the work that simply must be accomplished by a small group of local, Kansas City lawyers. Now that Musharaff knows the opinion of the Kansas City Metropolitan Bar Association, we can expect to see some real changes over there.



Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe they could write a letter to Michigan, too.

11/20/2007 8:50 AM  
Blogger les said...

Better this--and more from groups large and small, and individuals--than sitting back and waiting for the Bush invasion plan.

11/20/2007 9:02 AM  
Anonymous travelingal said...

Does anybody really believe that condemnation by the ABA will influence anything in Pakistan? It's almost laughable to think so.

But, let's say the terrorists get ahold of the nuclear weapons in Pakistan. Suggestions, anyone?

11/20/2007 12:23 PM  
Blogger Xavier Onassis said...

Maybe they would like to speak up on this issue, too:


RIYADH (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia defended on Tuesday a court's decision to sentence a woman who was gang-raped to 200 lashes of the whip, after the United States described the verdict as "astonishing".

Ruling according to Saudi Arabia's strict reading of Islamic law, a court had originally sentenced the woman to 90 lashes and the rapists to jail terms of between 10 months and five years. It blamed the woman for being alone with an unrelated man.

The court also took the unusual step of initiating disciplinary procedures against her lawyer, Abdul-Rahman al-Lahem, forcibly removing him from the case for having talked about it to the media.

It berated media for not specifying that three judges, not one, issued the recent ruling and reiterated that the "charges were proven" against the woman.

It also repeated the judges' attack against Lahem last week, saying he had "spoken insolently about the judicial system and challenged laws and regulations".

11/20/2007 3:11 PM  
Anonymous porchpundit said...

Travelingal -- will you please define who "the Terrorists" might be? Is this like "The Elks" or the "The Water Buffaloes?" Is there a single group? Do we consider the IRA or the Shining Path Rebels affiliates or subsidiaries of THE Terrorists?

Or are we talking about what used to be known as "THE International Communist Conspiracy? And, yes, that fake construction was used to diminish civil liberties, increase war profits and decrease the national security as well. Here we go again!

I worry more about the Pakistan bomb being used by a failing dictator against India, than I do THE Terrorists stealing a bomb, and knowing how to detonate it.

In other words, outside the misleading talking points of Karl Rove, terrorists tend to be a pretty diverse and self-serving lot.

Until we realize that we are facing more risk than we need to -- and statements like "let's say the terrorists get ahold [sic] of the nuclear weapons in Pakistan," only tend to make matters worse because someone might take that at a lucid comment, by mistake.

Most of all I worry about Bush and Cheney, because one is an idiot and the other is an evil idiot.

11/20/2007 10:13 PM  
Anonymous mainstream said...


Are a convenient tool for the far right to justify just about anything, from condemning gay marriage to invading more countries.

I think that's exactly correct Porchie.

11/20/2007 10:36 PM  
Anonymous mainstream said...

You forgot to mention the Shoe-Less Menace.

11/20/2007 10:37 PM  
Blogger Dan said...

Mainstream - Congrats - You've won the TKC Memorial Award for the most ridiculous stretch to make a meaningless insult against someone unrelated to the original post.

It is a bottle of Obsession.

11/21/2007 12:25 AM  
Anonymous travelingal said...

porchpundit and mainstream:

Why don't you ask Obama.

By Dan Balz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, August 2, 2007; Page A01

"Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama issued a pointed warning yesterday to Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, saying that as president he would be prepared to order U.S. troops into that country unilaterally if it failed to act on its own against Islamic extremists."

11/21/2007 7:32 AM  
Anonymous travelingal said...

XO - Horrific story. I can think of almost nothing worse than being a woman in that country or any other country that rules by Sharia law.

11/21/2007 7:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


11/21/2007 7:45 AM  
Anonymous mainstream said...

Sorry Dan, I just felt obliged to add that.

11/21/2007 7:59 AM  
Blogger Dan said...

Wasted effort, Mainstream - it's not a daily award.

You really ought to get your own blog - you could post on whatever you want, and your obsessions wouldn't be buried in the comments. (I'm serious.)

11/21/2007 8:04 AM  
Anonymous mainstream said...

I've thought about it, Dan. But a blog is a lot of work, and I'm afraid my rapier-like wit couldn't stand up to that regimen.

I'll stick with my inane commenting for the moment.

Thanks for the advice!

11/21/2007 8:27 AM  
Anonymous travelingal said...


And, if you'd like more examples, I'll be happy to provide them.. more from Obama and some really good ones from Hillary. I don't know what world you live in but I live in one where terrorism is a serious problem and where "lucid" people from both parties understand that.

11/21/2007 8:43 AM  
Blogger les said...

trav, bushco may have wasted much of U.S. prestige and respect around the world, but people do still lok to see what we're doing. Do I think that Musharraf cares about what the ABA says? Of course not; he's a strong-man dictator, and doesn't care what anyone says outside of his army. Do the protesters care? Yeah, actually, I think they do. I think it's reasonable and valuable for U.S. groups and individuals to let those folks--many of whom are lawyers and judiciary--that people outside of Pakistan acknowledge what's going on, support and appreciate their efforts. What's your alternative--poh' ohdinary folk jest set on they hands, and let the leaders fix it all up? Or maybe just nuke'em till they glow?

Oh, and your touching concern about terrorists and nukes? They already have 'em, remember? Our good buddy's government gave 'em to one member of the Axis of Evil, and probably two. Yeah, Perez, that stalwart ally against teh Terra.

11/21/2007 9:43 AM  
Anonymous SSideDem said...

T-gal is exactly right. I get sick and tired of the liberal Blame America first crowd. People like mainstream, porchpundit, and Dan and whole the bunch of un-American illegal immigrant kissing bums who follow that thinking will never understand why people are smart to be afraid.

11/21/2007 9:46 AM  
Blogger Xavier Onassis said...

The "terrorists" can never defeat us militarily. The only way they can possibly win is if they make us so afraid of them that we are willing to surrender all of our rights and freedoms in exchange for a promise of safety. For God's sake people...read some history. This is not the first time and place that a government has used fear-mongering to supercede constitutional laws, create extrajudicial prison systems and take away civil liberties.

Conversley, we cannot defeat the "terrorists" militarily. Will there come a Victory Over Terrorism Day when the last hostile terrorist has been captured or killed, the world is declared safe again and we can all relax? Of course not. Anyone who thinks so is an idiot.

The way we eliminate terrorism is to pull our national head out of our ass and stop stomping around the world imposing our will and belief system by force, bringing down sovereign governments, occupying other countries, supporting dictatorships and condoning torture.

May be so many people in the world wouldn't hate us if we quit handing them SOOO many reasons to hate us on a big silver platter.

It's a lesson that most people learn in kindergarten...you want people to like you? Then don't be a dick.

11/21/2007 10:00 AM  
Anonymous mainstream said...

Note to ssidedem - people like mainstream, Ssidedem, think that we should be afraid, and be smart about it. Like not attacking Iraq, because the terrorists are actually somewhere else.

And not using fear and 9/11 as a blanket justification for one's actions - using fear prevent scrutiny.

You know, Ssidedem, it's your kind of thinking that's makes me want to take off all the warning labels on bottles and let darwin work his magic.

Then we wouldn't have to put up with people like you.

11/21/2007 10:08 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ssidedem - are you smart to be afraid, or afraid to be smart?

11/21/2007 2:52 PM  
Anonymous porchpundit said...

"Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama issued a pointed warning yesterday to Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, saying that as president he would be prepared to order U.S. troops into that country unilaterally if it failed to act on its own against Islamic extremists."


Travelingal the quote you offer makes my point -- it refers to Islamic extremists. Not all Islamic Extremists are terrorist and not all terrorists are Islamic Extremists. If we are going to address problems we should understand the causation and accordingly act.

When we start to talk about "The Global War On Terror" and "The Terrorists" and make broad-based assumptions about who does and does not include is when we lose. We go chasing around the world driving by fear and romance rather than a sense of justice.

We start shadow boxing with our own nightmares, which are scarier than anything that the real world has to offer. In the mean time mass murders like Bin Ladin escape.

It is that kind of shadow boxing that consumed the American electorate and allowed an election thief to invade a Iraq rather than focusing on the Afghanistan -- well that and a petty Bush family vendetta and Cheney's lust for oil profits.

Ssidedem .... you are not worth the bandwidth of a response; although, I did like Mainstream's.

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone

11/21/2007 3:08 PM  
Anonymous travelingal said...

“When I am president, we will wage the war that has to be won, with a comprehensive strategy with five elements: getting out of Iraq and on to the right battlefield in Afghanistan and Pakistan; developing the capabilities and partnerships we need to take out the terrorists and the world’s most deadly weapons; engaging the world to dry up support for terror and extremism; restoring our values; and securing a more resilient homeland.”

[Update: The full version of the speech is available on the Obama campaign’s blog. Full article by Jeff Zeleney.]

Porchpundit: I think we're playing with words here. Note Obama uses the words terrorist, terror, and extremism in one breath. I use him as an example because he could very well be our next President.

I think I understand what is going on here and it is your hatred of Bush and the way he used the phrase, The War On Terror to make his case for the invasion of Iraq.

I'm not a big fan of Bush or the situation in Iraq either. I hope our next President is able to stop terrorism by whomever before they use weapons of mass destruction on innocent civilians . One thing that cannot be disputed is that since 9-11 there has been no such attack on our soil. Let's hope it stays that way no matter who is President.

Time to bake pies and prepare for the feast tomorrow.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

11/21/2007 4:53 PM  
Blogger Xavier Onassis said...

I have a problem with the nomenclature.




These all describe tactics and the people who use them.

It's like if after Pearl Harbor, Roosevelt had declared war on dive bombers or aircraft carriers.

It doesn't address the root cause!

11/21/2007 6:25 PM  
Anonymous Student Legal Eagle said...

The Kansas City Bar Association can't even do anything about the corruption in the Municipal Court!

They should clean up their own house first.

11/22/2007 11:49 AM  

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