How Did Bruce Giles Get His Gun?
Lisa Slaughter was murdered yesterday morning. An ex-boyfriend chased her down, threw her to the ground, and used a handgun to shoot her to death.
Bruce Giles, her murderer, committed suicide around an hour later. He had already done prison time for Assault in the second degree and Armed Criminal Action, for injuring his brother and sister-in-law.
I knew Lisa back in the early 90s, before she had the daughter that the paper says was the center of her life. We were co-workers, not close friends, but it is horrible to read that her last moments were spent helpless on the ground, looking up at a gun in the hands of a violent man, knowing she would not be there anymore to help her daughter grow up.
I wonder if anybody will track down how this gun wound up in the hands of this man. A convicted felon, he should not have been able to get one legally, but he managed to get one anyhow. Did he steal it? Did he get one under the table at some gun show? Did a friend lend it to him? Does anybody care? Will anybody bother to look into it?
posted by Dan at 5/23/2006 06:26:00 AM
32 Comments:
What a tragedy. IMHO and after reading part of the court transcript you provided, this guy would have eventually killed her with his bare hands; the gun was only a more convenient weapon.
My daughter was involved in an abusive relationship years ago. The man was very violent, once choking her till she almost blacked out. Thankfully she got out of the relationship alive. This guy went on to do the same thing to another woman, landing in prison for a couple of years for the assault and then being released to do it yet again to another woman.
You ask the question, "how did Bruce Giles Get his Gun?"
I ask the question, "Why didn't or couldn't our judicial/police system protect the victim from Bruce Giles?"
Sounds to me like you're both asking the same question.
Unfortunately, I could go into certain areas of KC and get any kind of gun I like on the street for about $25-300. No questions asked out of the back of some guys car. having worked in corrections for 5 years in another state, I will tell you that trying to reason with a killer is a waste of time. In the mind of the perp, they have already justified it and will sleep just fine.
I feel for your loss, and her family's. I hop you can find peace later on. when it comes time to hammer this idiot, a carton of smokes sent to someone inside may go a long way. (this is not what I would do, just adding some light to the topic).
travelingal - Yeah, maybe he would have tried to kill her with his bare hands.
But it would have taken longer.
Someone might have been able to intervene.
She might still be alive.
He wouldn't have been able to kill himself with his bare hands and he would have been caught, tried and punished appropriately instead of being able to take every cowardly chickenshit's way out of this world.
My guess is he was able to get his gun at one of those "Gun Shows" they are always having at Kansas hotels.
X- I seriously doubt he paid those prices for that gun. My guess is he bought it out of the back of a car from some kid who stole it or was fencing it for someone else. Those gun show guns aren't as cheap as a hot peice from the street, and it sounds like he was planning on only needing twice.
XO is just trying to get my goat re the Kansas gun shows...lol Actually, I wish all criminals would buy their guns from gun shows. Then, we'd be able to track em down. No such luck with trunk sales.
Not to be disrespectful, however, this was a horrible, preventable tragedy.
travelingal - busted! Have I become that transparent? Of course I have.
I agree that the tool of violence is irrelavent. Guns, bare hands, swords, knives, basebal bats...doesn't really matter.
What matters is stopping the sick, chickensit fucks that do this to women. I got no patience with these pussies.
I had a step-daughter who got involved with one of these guys and I have a daughter who I hope will have the good sense to avoid them like the plague.
But somebody, somewhere raised that sick fuck. Who taught him that violence was an acceptable way to deal with his emotions? Who set that example?
That doesn't happen in a vacuum.
Bottom line: Make guns illegal, only th criminals will be willing to get them. At whatever cost....
I really didn't expect this to turn into a discussion of gun control, though I guess that was easily anticipated. My point is solely that this asshole should not have had a gun, and I want to know how it happened, and I want the responsible parties to suffer. In a way, I suppose my point actually supports those who object to further gun regulation - in that I would bet that he got his gun illegally, and that there won't be any action to enforce the laws we do have. XO is right, though, in that Lisa is one of a handful of people who have been in my life who have died, I think, because it's so damned easy and convenient to feel powerful with a gun.
BTW, Smedrock, I want to be clear that this is not "my" loss. I had totally lost touch with Lisa, and we never were close. The loss is her family's, her daughter's, and, more generally, society's.
"I really didn't expect this to turn into a discussion of gun control . . . "
Of course you did, Dan. Don't kid yourself, or us.
At least you're smart enough to recognize the futility of such a course of action. The real question that as a society we have to ask is, given the history of this piece of crap, we (we being society collectively) knew or should have known this was coming. Why did we continue to let him out to victimize others? Why do we continue to make jails a revolving door for repeat violent offenders?
Anonymous Me -
Don't tell me what I expected and what I didn't expect.
And I think you're making a lot of other lousy assumptions, too. The fact that current laws MAY have sufficed to prevent a gun from getting into his hands does not mean that other laws, coupled with strong enforcement, would not have ACTUALLY prevented this tragedy.
But enough of coulda woulda shoulda - I really want to see real action in our real world against the people who really got that actual gun into the hands of Bruce Giles, under our current laws. I don't particularly care right now whether hand guns should be banned, or whether CCW is good policy, or whether the second amendment extends to individuals. Those are all interesting academic exercises I'll be happy to debate some other time. But, right now, I want to understand WHAT HAPPENED HERE.
Also, how much do you know about this guy? I don't know much - just that he was convicted once of a assault on a couple family members, and that he appears to have been stalking Lisa - though she apparently chose not to get a restraining order.
Are you advocating life imprisonment for all those convicted of assault?
Laws are already on the books at both the federal and state levels for ex-felons and guns. In short, it is not allowed, which leads me to believe he bought it off of some thug on the street. the last time I bought a pistol in KS, the background check was performed in front of me via the phone with the ATF. I am a licensed pistol instructor in the state of KS. the laws are quite clear on it. The fact is that if you want a gun bad enough, you can find one quite easily. No paperwork, just cash. Gun control laws will never cure that. And short of amending the Bill of Rights or the Constitution itself, guns are part of this country and it's history. Ensles violence is not going to stop, unfortunately, if we just remove the weapon. It is the user. This guy was deranged from day one, and unfortunately we cannot lock up anyone we think MAY cause problems in the future. They must commit the act first. But from what I understand and I think the question being asked is, knowing this guy's history, how the heck was he even allowed to set foot outside without supervision, or even to have been released at all.
My $.02,
Smed
I don't own a gun.
No one should own a gun.
Why do you think you need a gun?
What is it about having the ability to kill someone that inspires such passion?
XO
I don't want to turn this into a gun control thread (as I will now take Dan at his word that was not his intent).
I will post a link, however, to one who answers your question perhaps more elequently than I could. I don't know this person, I stumbled across the site from another link. But it fit here.
Have a good day. And we may have to discuss this some day, perhaps over a beer or, alternatively, at the range while shooting up 200 rounds or so.
http://anarchangel.blogspot.com/2006/05/why-chris-carries-gun-and-so-do-i.html
Anonymous me - I'll take you up on that offer of a drink...just make it a double bourbon instead of a beer and you've got yourself a deal.
I'll even take you up on the shooting range offer. I'll admit it...shootin' guns is fun! But not after the drinks! Before!
But I went to the link you provided and I still don't buy the agrument.
The world-at-large is just not dangerous enough to require every man, woman and child to be packing heat to protect themselves.
The odds of you being assaulted to the extent that you need to employ deadly force are right up there with you winning the lottery.
And even if you WERE attacked and USED deadly force, chances are you'd wind up doing time for manslaughter. Our draconian government tends to defend it's monopoly on the use of deadly force and really frowns on it when citizens defend themselves.
I'm fifty fucking years old and I have NEVER been in a situation where I felt I needed that kind of protection.
Of course I avoid people with too much drama in their lives, I've never been to the middle-east, I don't troll for whores and crack on Independence Avenue and I mind my own fucking business.
I have no desire to be a Citizen On Patrol looking for crime to fight.
I work. I come home. I watch HDTV. I treat my girlfriend like a Goddess (because she is) and I stay out of Harm's Way.
Follow XO's simple rules of life and you won't need a gun either.
someone also should look into the history of Lisa, although she was the victim in this crime, she was also a known drug addict that cleaned out Bruces bank account numerous times, ran him over with her car that he paid for, kept calling and writing begging him to return, she had many occasions to get away from him and stay away. there are many victims in this situation, we have children with no parents and no grandparents. instead of trying to figure out how this happened perhaps we should consider all of the victims. this was a two way street for Bruce and Lisa and neither one was a good person. that while Bruce committed the violent act, both contributed to the outcome. this could have been prevented in any number of ways, with the help of both families.
I truly wish that someone could make sense of a situation that makes none. It seems to me that the only thing anyone on this comment board is concerned with is the fact that Bruce killed Lisa. No one person seems to worried at all that Bruce also had a son and that he will no longer have a father to talk to either. It really pains me to know that everyone is so tied up in the fact that Bruce was a horrible and abusive person but that nobody wants to be the one to say that Lisa was no angel either. None of us was around while all this was going on, well, if you were why the hell didn't you stop it! Both Bruce and Lisa had the power and right to put a stop to this ongoing abuse at any time...THEY chose not to. This was not just the crime of Bruce Giles. I would never condone the actions that took place that Monday morning, but I do understand the frustration and anger and hurt that both of them were probably feeling prior to their deaths. You must understand though that something drove Bruce to this point, its not like he just woke up and decided that it needed to be done in his head. Lisa is not an innocent victim in this, she attributed greatly to the problems that they had. She kept going back to him as well as him pursuing her. so I think that everyone who has something to say about this issue and the murder of this woman also needs to dig up the dirt on the person you are defending. She was no angel and she should not be defended as if she was. As bad of a person as Bruce was, and he was bad...something had to have helped push him to the point that he committed this heinous crime...why dont you sleep on that and see if you can come up with the answer!! I guarantee if you give it a little thought you will come up with the point that apparently Lisa was not everything that you have heard that she was.
Look. Life can be shit sometimes.
Bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people.
It's a random fucking universe and things DON'T always happen "for a reason". They just happen. Okay?
If we are judged at all (which I seriously doubt), we are judged on how well we deal with all of the shit the universe flings at us.
The motivations and character of the shit-flinger don't enter into it. It's how we deal with it that matters.
I'm guessing that losing your fucking mind, stalking your ex, killing her and then killing yourself would not be "judged" as an acceptable response to a stressful situation.
My Number One Rule To Live By: Avoid people who have "Recurring-Jerry-Springer-Like-Drama" (RJSLD) in their lives. Because it will never go away, it will only get worse, and it will eventually suck you in and kill you.
Anonymous -
I don't know about the truth or falsity of your allegations - as I said, I hadn't seen Lisa in a decade, and I've never met Bruce Giles. I don't know whether he had a child who is now fatherless, and, if he did, that is sad. I've written in the past about the morally odd space of knowing and kind of liking a perpetrator of a sick crime (see Jan Helder - Sympathy for the Devil. I respect your apparent sense of loss, though focusing on Lisa's alleged shortcomings will not really help. She did not deserve what happened to her.
Even if my sympathies were with Bruce, I'd still want to know how and why he got his gun. He would probably still be alive if he hadn't, and his son would still have a living, though troubled, father.
I know several members of the Giles Family and to infer that he was raised to be a killer is utterly ridiculas.. You can't blame the parents for something a grown man has done. It's obvious to me and to most people with half a brain that this man was sick and, as someone else said on here, Lisa was no angel either. She pulled him into her world of drug abuse, she was part of the problem from jump street. Before he met her, he was raising his son and he was doing a fine job of it. After he met her, she pulled him into her world of drug abuse and he couldn't find his way back out of it. I'm not by any means excusing him for what he did, it was a horrible thing to have happen to his family and to hers but, she was as much to blame as he was. It made me sick to see her on t.v. as this great mom when all she was, was a drug addict with as many problems as Bruce had. She used him for his money, took his self respect, kicked him when he was down, messed with his mind on repeated occasion's and he just finally blew. Again, it's a shame it had to end the way it did for both family's but, I'm sick of hearing she's an angel and he's some sicko, they were both sick in the head and the worst of it is, his son now has a father who has killed someone,including himself. so if for no other reason, someone needs to be on his son's side because this young man does not deserve what has happened to him and he sure as hell doesn't need to find sights like this one where everyone thinks that crazy bitch was an angel, he lived with her, he knew she was nuts, he wanted out and so he got out and I'm sure he sits now wishing that his father would have had the strength to walk away and he wishes that Lisa would have LET him walk away instead of sending him repeated letters begging him to come over and begging for money to pay her bills because she's used all of her money to buy her drugs.. Some great mom ey?
as for all of your question's about how he bought a gun.... over the internet.. imagine that!!!
think bout the kids who were left behind from this whole odeal.and what they must be feeling having to go without there parents..
XO
I certaily wouldn't require everyone to "pack heat;" however, others may so desire, and with what they believe is just cause. Would you deny me that ability?
I agree; the odds that I'll need it are low. But odds of lots of things are low, and we still prepare for them, because the consequences if they happen can be so drastic. I carry a first aid kit in my vehicle, I keep a fire extinguisher in my house and boat, etc. I'm not statistically likely to be burgled, but I still lock the house. Be prepared. As the saying goes, better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
And yes, if I have to use a weapon, there could be legal consequences. However, if I follow the law (and I know that law) in the use of deadly force, I can deal with those consequences successfully.
I don't generally go to the kinds of places you refer to either; my life is frankly pretty dull, other than my job, and I'd like to keep it that way. But as you have noted, life can be rather random, and can throw you serious curves at the most inopportune times. Yes, I intend to carry, and I practice for that eventuality. I hope to God I never have to use it, but I intend to be prepared.
Notice - not a f-bomb anywhere, and every bit as persuasive.
Anonymous Me - Honestly, I think that those who "carry" are wishing their lives were more exciting than they really are.
Not attacking you, personally.
Just making another ill-informed generalization to make a broader point.
I'm guessing that oh, say, 80-90% of the "conceal and carry" supporters are safe, suburban dwelling commuters who will never encounter a life threatening situation as long as they live.
But they want to feel like they are "living life on the edge" by occassionally rubbing shoulders with people who make less than $100k a year.
The people who have the most need to carry a weapon won't, because they realize how silly and dangerous it is.
The people with the least need to carry a weapon will fight for their right to do so, because it makes them feel even more powerful than they already are.
Finally, "And yes, if I have to use a weapon, there could be legal consequences. However, if I follow the law (and I know that law) in the use of deadly force, I can deal with those consequences successfully."
That's a bit naive.
1. In an emotional, life threatening situation, you are going to be logically evaluating the written legal implecations of pulling the trigger? Doubt it.
2. Even if the law is behind you 100%, do you really think a politically ambitious DA looking to make a name for himself couldn't get you convicted of manslaughter (at the very least)?
3. The "Conceal And Carry Crowd" may like to picture themselves as "Rambos On Patrol", but statistics prove that they are much more likeley to be bitch slapped by some young punk, have their precious gun taken from them and have that gun used to kill the gunowner or someone else.
People who insist on carrying a firearm are increasing the danger to other citizens and themselves
XO
"Just making another ill-informed generalization to make a broader point."
Truer words were never spoken - ill-informed, indeed.
You seriously mischaracterize and misunderstand those who favor legal carry, my friend. But then, you have a tendency to simply apply a pejorative label to anything you disagree with and dismiss it.
As to your numbered issues -
1. That's why one should train, practice, and train again. The legal implications have to be automatic, or nearly so. One CAN think clearly in a crisis, if one is prepared.
2. That politically ambitious DA is far more likely to have his/her career cut short prosecuting what the public sees as a clear case of self-defense (besides, I AM that DA!!).
3. "Statistics prove?" Where? Show them to me. Liars, damn liars, and statisticians. The statistics "prove" nothing. Over the last 20 years, as gun ownership has grown and concealed carry has spread, crime rates have dropped, according to FBI figures. Coincidence? Perhaps, perhaps not. I won't try to argue that there is a causative relationship there; I cannot prove same. Neither can any statistic "prove" anything else. It does, however, give lie to the old meme that "more guns cause more deaths."
I didn't want this to be a gun control thread, so I won't respond anymore on that issue, taking Dan at his word. I'll just say to those who would impose the State to "control" guns - "I'll control my own gun, thank you."
" . . . I didn't want this to be a gun control thread, so I won't respond anymore on that issue, taking Dan at his word."
Oh, go ahead! Gun control threads bring out the comment whore in me - even though the point of the original post was simply that, under existing law, he should not have had his gun, and I hope somebody goes after the failure in the system that allowed him to have one.
Don't you think this trash has gone on long enough? Dan, why don't you be man enough to put this web page in the garbage where it belong's. I know where Bruce got his gun, and ya know what? Knowing that info doesn't change a DAMN thing now, does it? Even if you knew, what good could it do ya? If your so hell bent on changing the world, start with politic's and all the homeland disadvantage's going on in the United States. Maybe you could start a web-page for bitch's like Lisa Slaughter on how not to mentally and physically abuse people. If you really want to get away from someone don't keep going back to them, using them for all the good you can get out of them. Bruce did not stalk her,he was seeing someone else when Lisa found out, she started emailing the woman and making threat's to her. I could publish lot's of legal document's on Lisa Slaughter, including the case from CPS that was investigating her for mental and physical abuse, and lack of supervision for her daughter, Jenna. This may not have happened if she hadn't started the physical abuse on Bruce. I witnessed it myself along with his son. And another bit of info, the press and newspaper's never notified the Giles family of the situation, They found out along with Bruce's son, on the GOD DAMN TELEVISION, so while your out here pointing your finger and making accusations you should get all the fact's. Get rid of your ridiculous web page and try getting into something more useful.....
Did I say something inaccurate? I don't think so.
And I have no idea whether your accusations about Lisa are correct, but your tone undercuts their believability.
Regardless, though, he's the one who used a handgun to murder somebody. And he should not have been able to get his hands on it.
Dragonslayer:
Wow. Did one not take his morning toke yesterday am?
As Dan said, this isn't about whether Lisa was or wasn't a good person, it doesn't matter. We dont evaluate whether a murder is a murder based on the merits of the victim. And he doesn't get to shoot her because she "deserved" it.
Dan't right in his point: he shouldn't have been able to get the gun at all.
Dan's right in his point to you, as well. Your rambling, ranting post undercuts any credibility you have. Anyone who refers to a woman as a "bitch" immediately goes to the back of the line; it is that attitude (perhaps in part) which got Lisa killed in the first place.
I AM.....
The Brother, of Lisa....
I AM the Ex brother in law, to Bruce Giles.
I AM, aware of how a twisted individual he was.
I Am Glad..
he was pussy enough to kill himself. As if he did not accomplish that one single feat, I too, would have been a murderer.
This man's sickness goes deeper than what you people have discussed. Started way many years before you may have believed. It all started with his upbringing, and his choices as he became an adult. He just never archived adultism.
I was there, when this young adult of a man, was knocked on the noggin, for being someplace he should not of been as his father hit him, again and again.
This same person took those hard knock lessons, and applied them, to his new born infant daughter. He hit her again, and again, as well as his wife.
He was an abusive person. He was taught that. He carried it on throwout his life.
His "Son" may not have known the real Bruce that was his dad, as he had only received custody after he got out of prison, and what a feat of achievement that must have been knowing this mans track record.
Apparently the courts don't look at track records of human achievement to allow a man as this to be a dad. To give custody to a man that beats his infant daughter to a pulp. To a man that runs from the law and exhibits the same behavioral traits in other states.
I AM her brother.
I DID, kick his ass one night over a fight between him and her and ..
I did tell HIM, if he came back there would be hell to pay.
Many months passed. Tranquil, silence, and then she said I love him.
I KNOW, what my sister was about at the time.
I KNOW. she was not a saint.
I KNOW, that I loved her, and felt for her and cared as much as I could at the time to let her flounder at times. to help her become a real mother. A mother unlike ours. And she did. But she faltered.
Sadly her use/abuse of drugs was a down fall for her. I tried and tried to help her overcome, but she failed. And that led her to her love of abuse from a man. A man that should not have had a gun. A man that told her many times that she needed to meet his gun. A man, that in the end, indeed, acquainted them.
I AM the man, that is raising her child.
I AM, the man that is making her dreams come true.
I AM the man that realizes the loss of her mother on untold levels.
I AM......
The one that holds her heart true. to be the person that she needs to be, despite the ugliness of a person that entered her life, and ended her mothers.
I AM....
So to you who say you know the Giles family. I say you only know the half of it.
Who ever the hell you are, it was not my sister, but him, and him alone that was the sorted culprit of the whole endeavor.
She was no saint, and God knows that, but your lies of running him over with a car, that he bought is just fucking dumbfounding.
And the other aligations are also intreaging.
But I AM the man.....
Thats holding the ball, after the after effects.
Its funny how everyone will talk bad about people they dont even know. And even if they dont know the situation. First Xavier Onassis, you dont know either one of these people. So you have no room to talk about anyone. So you should probably just mind your own business you bastard! Next i know where he got his gun. Oh my god! Terrible huh? To bad there is nothing anyone can do about it. He did what he did and it was wrong. But Lisa was nothing like what the papers and news said. I feel bad for her daughter because she doesn't deserve what she got. And i see Lisa's brother left a comment on here with the whole I AM shit... good for you! The truth is NOBODY knew what EXACTLY happened all the time between these two people except for the people that lived with them. The truth is Lisa DID hit him with a car! DID clean out his bank account! DID threaten to have people come beat him up! DID play with his mind and beg for him to come back! DID do DRUGS! I know everything about all of this because I AM HIS SON! So all the assholes talking about things they dont know about need to shut the hell up! I know the truth about it all! I had to find out from the news on TV that my father was dead! I had to live with all that happened for a year and then i moved out. Now i have to live without a dad! But nobody seems to care about that little part! Like its partly my fault she is dead. So next time before anyone starts to run their mouth again they should get all the facts. Her daughter has to live without a mother and i have to live without a father because of the choices they BOTH made. But everyone still wants to point fingers and say im to blame and her daughter is a victim. But last i knew we BOTH lost a parent! So now you all know the truth about SOME of the things. And still almost 3 years later people point fingers at me like i didnt lose anything in this. Screw all of you! And anyone not man enough to say the things to the people your talking about!
I knew and worked with Lisa just months prior to this incident. She confided in with me many times how she wanted to get her daughter and herself away from this man as she feared for her life -- ultimately, he cost her the job with my law firm due to harassing phone calls to partners, etc. Lisa moved out and he couldn't stand the rejection. She knew her life was at stake and ultimately, she paid the price. I think of her often and I remembered it was close to the anniversary of her tragic demise. Lisa was a wonderful and caring friend, co-worker and mother and did not deserve this.
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